Talk:Creddie/@comment-3101374-20131105074931/@comment-14284535-20131117000204

I broke one of my rules and viewed that minisode. I don't take Freddie' evaluation of Sam literally - although it says nothing flattering about Freddie saying so and Sam in her response. Evidently, you do. My justification is partly the Seddie arc and, among others, "iRescue Carly." In the latter, we see Season 7 Sam repudiating the behaviour of Season 1 Sam (i.e., Dana). That scene with the geek I believe comes right out of a Carly-Sam exchange from Season 1.

Let me go to your "hints" section above for what I find creepy. All I am probably proving is that I am not nearly so benign in my interpretations of Freddie's and Carly's behaviours towards each other as you are. I get the same complaing from Seddiers. These are my top issues, although several more of things you all seem to find cute look very different in my eyes. Again, that could just be ship goggles versus non-shipping goggles.

1. The peephole thing just gives me the willies. That's pathologically obsessive and often correlates to someone mentally ill who needs to land in "Troubled Waters Mental Hospital."

2. Every time I hear, Carly manipulate him with, "please, for me," I just think that's disturbing. It implies that Carly not respect him and manipulates him without regard to his feelings and/or logic AND that Freddie maybe deserves the crap he gets from Sam about his crush on Carly because he can't resist her and always complies. In fact, I have been meaner to my closest friends than Sam is to Freddie (aside from the violence) in these situation.

3. Freddie's continual attempts to flirt are cringeworthy. As a geek who never knew how to flirt and just didn't because I would look ridiculous, I think Freddie should just not overdo it and maybe then Carly would come around.

4. Don't get me started on Freddie claiming that Carly's first husband's fate will be "nothing you can prove." That's down there with saying he will never give up. Does Freddie not respect the concept of marriage? Does he not respect Carly enough to accept when she gets married that IT'S OVER. Preseverance is great, but at some point it becomes pointless. In the face of the other guys she dates, why doesn't he grow a pair and move on? At some point, if the same thing keeps happening to him, at what point does it become pathetic?

I should also be clear: I do see much of what you see in Creddie. I also see much of what Seddiers see in Seddie. But I always try to know what is wrong with each ship. (Heck, I am religious guy who argues most atheists' arguments against the existence of God better than they do.  I just make it a point to know as much about an argument that I stick my neck into as possible.)

Most of Creddiers' and Seddiers' compaints about the other ship are largely accurate, if sometimes overplayed. But when it come to the fundamental idea within shipping, the "meant to be" theory, I just don't buy it. I am not claiming I am better or smarter; I am just more jaded. In many ways, I rather envy you shippers - maybe that kind of idealism that I lost because of the hardships I have had (some of which I wouldn't wish on my biggest enemies) is a character flaw. I don't know.