Talk:Seddie/@comment-5679407-20140711032308

@iEmbargo:

'"A few other points about the structure of iCarly, which are debatable: it is in Nickelodeon's and Columbia's best interests to maximise the positive exposure of Miranda Cosgrove within iCarly and other media (this means that her character must do things that may objectively be objectionable, but would be acceptable if not expected within the target demographic); her character should grow and overcome her foibles as the demographic learn to also; within any television series." '

That's the thing... Carly's foibles were relatively miniscule. Most of her flaws were played off for comic effect. Carly was "the heart" of the group--the moral center--so if there was to be "growth," it would be what stems from her, not with in her. The conflicts Carly faced, as a character, were  external -- the only example to the contrary I can remember is her plot in iChristmas. So I can argue a structure, where Carly is given a group of relateable misfits and deviants for friends while sustaining some odd quirks herself, and assert that to be the maxim of positive exposure. It worked for Seinfeld.

"And lastly, a few points about romance-driven storylines in popular media: the convention is leads pair up romantically with leads and supporting characters pair up with supporting characters;"

Then:

"Miranda Cosgrove is the lead actress; Jenentte McCurdy is the lead supporting actress, and Nathan Kress is the lead supporting actor."

by your very own words, isn't Seddie the convention?

"a convention of romantic comedies is that the lead character looks around for what s/he wants and needs, only to find that the opposite gender lead is that person who was right in front of him/her all the time."

Except that Carly's love life was never given serious attention. It was a perfect setup for "boy of the week" episodes -- that way Carly doesn't come off as a homosexual recluse and the writers can exploit the levity in each successive failure. Even, Freddie was a snap back. He may not have disappeared from the show, but his tryst with Carly had not been alluded to once (in any canon episode) since iSYL. This, too, is convention, i.e. Jerry from "Seinfeld," Joey and Phoebe from "Friends," Shawn Hunter from "Boy Meets World," Drake from "Drake & Josh" and her brother Spencer Shay from "iCarly." If the writers thought much of Carly's long-term pursuits, in that it would have a signficant influence on her character, then I'm sure the writers would have written plots that serve this purpose. Alas, they did not.

Carly was written to be comically superficial in a way that wouldn't alienate the audience (much like Joey from "Friends.) Even when she left for Italy, the selling point--for comic effect of course--is "Italian Boys." The trope that you're suggesting does not fit Creddie because it would imply that either one or both of them are in denial about the other's feelings and/or dynamic of their relationship. Everything was put out there since episode 1:

Carly: I thought we talked about this. We can be buds, but you gotta get over this crush thing. Freddie: I am over it! Seriously! I'm in love with you, you just want to be friends, and I'm totally cool living with that constant pain!

"My argument is that Creddie was Dan Schneider's plan at the very beginning.  I am not saying that it is better, worse, smarter, dumber, more natural, more artificial, etc. than Seddie or anything else - I am saying that the format and design of iCarly was imbued with Creddie from the start."

My issue with your argument isn't based on a preference that you may or may not hold. When I state that you're bolstering the integrity of Creddie, I mean that you're making more out of it than what it actually was. You're arguing a convention to Creddie, that in retrospect, did not exist. The one episode that served a Creddie plot was more a referendum on Freddie's scruples and interests. He didn't want Carly if she couldn't truly love him. I think the convention you're arguing suits Seddie. Freddie had an obsessive crush on Carly -- so much so that most girls failed to get his attention. Then there was Sam -- her best friend -- a potential romantic prospect. But she's not Carly. (Also her bullying of him did not help.) Two things: it's been suggested that Freddie has known Sam for just as long as he has known Carly. It's also been implied that Sam has had a crush on Freddie since a time that predated the show. Once again:

Freddie: "You know, they say when a girl constantly rips on a guy, it just means she has a crush on him" - iDont Wanna Fight.

- Given that Sam has been "ripping" on him since before the series start, it's only logical that a possible crush would extend far back then.

Freddie: "I wanna know..."

Sam: "Whatchya wanna know?"

Freddie: ...when you first started to like me.

Sam: Okay. Remember the time that I pushed you in front of that bike messanger, and he knocked you down, and your head hit that fire hydrant?"

[omitted for length purposes.]

Sam: I don't know, you looked, kinda cute."

--They don't specify the time of this off-screen encounter, leading me to believe that the specifics weren't important. Also given that the dialogue seemed reminiscent, one could say that it happened long before that conversation.

I would say that the trope suits Freddie's perspective of Sam much more than it does Carly's perspective of Freddie. Sam was the girl who was right in front of him. And his relationship to Carly as well as the iCarly web-show was the catalyst*. Given that the future of Creddie and Seddie--as you cannot erase Seddie from the picture after season 4--would ultimately boil down to Freddie's decision--not Carly's--I would say, once again, that the convention you're arguing does not exist in Creddie.
 * In iChristmas, it was suggested that Freddie's pursuit of Carly was a signficant factor in their friendship. That is, once Freddie gave up on Carly, they weren't much of friends. This is the reason why I believe that Creddie's purpose was to give birth to Seddie. Without Carly, it would be hard to find a believable way to have Sam and Freddie interact.  So, when they started working on iCarly together, we knew the initial stake they each had in it. Sam was Carly's best friend and Freddie had a hopeless crush -- a crush that kept him close to Carly, and by extension, Sam.

The most dynamic and expanded relationship on the show without question, to me, was Seddie--my preference for it notwithstanding. And I don't think it was consolation to a, at the time, scant fan-base. I think the way the characters as well as their ensuing dynamic were set up for Seddie for the reasons I mentioned. Of course this is eclipsed by the entire group dynamic. However, given that a large amount of episodes have focused on a either a plot or subplot of Sam's and Freddie's dynamic (romantic & platonic) as opposed to the very few episodes that offered a focus on Carly's and Freddie's dynamic, to state that Creddie was the original plan seems to be a bit inattentive.

"Carly also dates guys more and more like Freddie as the years go by."

I contend this notion. Carly has not dated guys that were more like Freddie, as the years went by. She does have a type--appearance-wise--that I've noticed. She doesn't go for guys like Freddie; she goes for guys like Spencer -- tall, handsome, older brunettes. Freddie is maybe two of those. in iSHF, it was Shane; in iDBB, it was Griffin; in iSD, it was Austin. In iSaFW it was Adam; in iQ, it was Kyle; in iTFC, it was Lance; in iPS, it was Trey**. It's not uncommon. Men and women tend to favor mates with familiar characteristics.

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 * I'm assuming Carly's interest in Trey is what you were referring to when you stated that she dates guys more like Freddie. While I concede that there's a parallel between Freddie and Trey, this does not give stalk to Creddie. If anything, it countermands it. It demonstrates the point that Carly never held Freddie being a "nerd" against him. That, she, herself, can find interest in nerdy and intelligent guys if they suit her type--which Trey and Kyle do.

@Passionate Seddier45: I agree with you as to why iCarly didn't end with a graduation or prom -- it started with a webshow, it was going to end with it. I also agree that Carly might've left for Italy, anyway, even if Sam & Cat wasn't greenlighted.