Talk:Creddie/@comment-5679407-20121217052436/@comment-5679407-20121218005940

"The joke with Freddie talking about 'wanting to get back together' was simply that. A joke. With a laugh track."

We can't live and die by the laugh track. Otherwise there'd be many things that could be misinterpreted as a joke. For example, Freddie's regret that he ended things with Carly. When he said "WHAT DID I DO?" there was also a laugh track. Am I to interpret what Freddie said to be a joke? Or is the levity found in that he had a chance with the girl he's always had a crush on, but chose to end it? It's the same thing with the phone conversation in iGoodbye: was what Freddie said to Sam meant to be a joke, or was it that the moment suddenly got akward that warranted the laugh track? I have the episode, and if you listen, the laugh track is played simultaneously with an "oooohhh!" track, so...

"Your overall idea that Sam was developed in a way that shows she can be 'loved' is valid (and personally I feel this applies perfectly to Spencer had Dan been able to do canon-Spam), but it doesn't follow that this means Seddie makes sense. A more accurate line is that Sam can be loved, but Freddie is not the guy for this to happen with her."

No, it had to be with Freddie. The reason why is because Freddie is probably the most indentifiable character on the show. There's nothing really abnormal or quirky about him as opposed to Carly, Sam, Spencer, Gibby, Marissa, and T-Bo. Now before you start accusing me of calling Carly "abnormal," I'm not. But she is (very) quirky. Another reason is that Freddie, unlike Carly, isn't as unflexible when it comes to making the right choices. He can be swayed, more often, and subjected to making poor choices. In essence, Freddie represent us, in a way. We're not as "good" as Carly, but we're no where near as "extreme" as Sam. So if Dan wanted us, the audience, to love or believe that Sam is lovable, then he had to show that a person like Freddie--a person like us--can love Sam. And, I'm certain that Dan's has always wanted us to love Sam--not that Carly, Spencer, Freddie, and Gibby aren't lovable.

The reason why Spam doesn't work well with this is because the target audience are pre-teens and teens. Spencer was 26 years old at the beginning of the series, so even if a romance with a 14 year-old wasn't weird enough, there'd always be a disconnect between Spam and the audience because not many viewers would identify with Spencer. Spencer is also very weird and quirky, so the audience is less likely to identify with him. Freddie is the perfect candidate because he's normal and his age emulates that of the target audience. If Sam were to have a meaningful relationship with a boy who wasn't Freddie, then I'm sure, the boy would be much like Freddie. I believe Dan had specific reasons for pairing Sam and Freddie, and that his movitations weren't seasonal.

"Sam's progression as a character is not defined by romances. It is only defined by Sam herself. Her romances may be as a result of said development, and relationships (romantic or platonic) may be the cause or catalyst for development for Sam, but claiming she can only develop or be shown as 'lovable' via a romance implies a weakness in the Sam character that I don't feel matches what was shown on screen. To me personally, I saw Sam as being a character who can love and be loved back develop primarily with the Sam/Spencer relationship, as I don't see constant fighting and, bullying (and later, domestic abuse) as 'love'."

I never said that Sam's progression was defined by romance (re-read what I stated.) I said that Dan chose to use romance as a means to making the development between Sam and Freddie's relationship more profound. You're right Sockstar1, in that, there are alternative ways in doing this, but Dan chose romance and progressed from enemies-->frenemies-->friends-->boyfriend & girlfriend-->(closer friends?)-->?

When it came to Creddie vs. Seddie, Creddie, at least, in the beginning was supposed to be the obvious choice. We are [supposed] to be more inclined to Carly because she's normal, she's "girly," she's nice, and all of that other good stuff. Where as Sam is gritty, uncouth, unrefined, etc. Freddie was necessary to show us our pre-conceived notions and inclinations to normalcy, that being Freddie's obsessive crush on Carly (which was successfully comical, as well.) Dan, assumingly, then progressed by forcing Sam and Freddie together, through Carly and subsequently iCarly, and by proxy, force us--since Freddie, again, indentifies with target audience most--to interact with Sam. This, again, is why it had to be Freddie. Freddie's a main character and Dan can manipulate the dynamic to his desire. For us to come to terms with Sam's character, we'd have to reach middle-ground. Hence the whole: "But, maybe one day if you get a little more normal;" "Or you a get a little more abnormal..." *It's interesting to point out that the two of them are still talking about each other, not other possible mates.*

You're stuck in the initial notion of Sam being cantankerous, abusive, and bullying, and having that define her relationship with Freddie, rather than what has progressed over the past 5 years of iCarly. Not only have we learned that a guy like Freddie is capable of loving Sam, but that a girl like Sam is capable of loving a guy like Freddie. This is only strengthened by the fact that the nature of their relationship just a few years prior was very cotentious. I'm not saying that every other character plays the role of a mannequin and that the story revolves around Sam, but as far as Seddie is concerned, I'm confident in Dan's motivations--if I'm interpreting them correctly.

But I won't force this on you, you're more than welcomed to disagree. I'll be posting this exchange in the blog, as I find some of it relevant to what I was initally stating.