Thread:3cooldog92/@comment-3180503-20120618155642/@comment-3247345-20120621052734

Exactly. This had to be Nathan's idea. I guarantee it. Like you said, she never would have gotten this spot otherwise. This, the Twitter incident himself, as well as Nathan calling Seddie abusive shows how little Nathan cares about the fanbase. I remember back when he blocked those fans. He "explained" his actions in at Twitlonger (I'm not sure if that's the proper term; it's basically a tweet that's not limited to 140 characters). The whole thing was absolute BS, but I remember one thing he said with unmistakable clarity: He said he appreciates his fans. At this point this was the first stupid thing he did. As in at that point we had no other reason to be annoyed with him. I remember thinking "That's great Nathan. But I'll judge you based on your actions, not your words". How empty those words turned out to be. It seem he only pays lip service to appreciating his fans. Nathan has an incredibly distorted view of what happened on Twitter. His account is proven false by clear and convincing evidence that Madisen started this. But even if his account of what happened was correct (which it clearly isn't) this whole thing should have shown him that Madisen and his fans don't mix well. It should have been a warning to keep them seperate as much as possible. Either Nathan doesn't respect the fans as much as he says he does or he's incredibly stupid. I don't think Nathan is too stupid to see what kind of message he's sending his fans by getting Madisen on the show. It seems he knows exactly what he's doing. He's either got Madisen on the show because he just doesn't care or he's doing it as a middle finger to the fans who had the balls to think of Madisen as anything less than a living goddess. I can't help but reach this conclusion. When the Twitter incident first happened, I thought that maybe Nathan made a one time stupid decision or he just didn't think things through. But I know that Nathan isn't stupid enough to keep doing this unless he doens't care.

Nathan's conduct aside, there's something that pisses me off more than Nathan trying to get Madisen on iCarly. It's the fact that Dan gave this the green light. Dan had to have explicitly approved of this for it to forward. He's the executive producder and head writer. It's not like someone said to Dan "Here, do something with Madisen Hill". There's no way Dan didn't know what happened on Twitter. He may not know the details, but the fallout was just too widespread for Dan not to know what happened. I'd hope Dan would be on the fans' side. Obviously it would have been stupid for Dan to publicly side with the fans. But he could have silently shown solidarity with the fans by not letting Madisen on the show. Nathan would have had his hands tied if Dan had simply said no. The only recourse Nathan would have had would be to make the situation public and appeal to the fans directly. But given Madisen's behavior, the response would have ranged from nothing to showing strong support for Dan. I don't even think the Creddie fans are very happy about Madisen being on the show. The fact is that Madisen's character stops Carly from dating Freddie just as much as it keeps Sam from dating him. While I think we'll see a jealous Sam but not a jealous Carly, that's another story entirely. While they're not tied to Jathan like with Seddie, I think they recognize to some degree that Madisen probably doesn't respect them much more than the people she got Nathan to block. Had Nathan gone public, people would have speculated as to why Dan said no. Given what Madisen did, it's not hard to see where most of the speculation would lead. When the fans realized that Dan was silently siding with the fans, they would have been pleased to say the least. Plus Dan had an extra incentive to not allow Madisen on. While he clearly tolerates ship wars, I don't think he wants fans at each others' throats for reasons other than shipping. Unlike the Seddie/Creddie fights, I don't think fights over whether Madisen should be on would generate much publicity. This was a dumb move on Dan's part. Unlike with Nathan, I don't think Dan is being unappreciative of his fans. I just don't think he really thought this through. My guess is this is just another attempt to agitate the shippers given what we know about the plot of the episode. Unfortuately this particular action sends an unintended message.

I really don't care if Nathan doesn't appreciate me as a fan to be honest. I have more pressing matters to attend to in life than worry about whether Nathan appreciates me as fan. Him not showing appreciation isn't what bugs me. It's the fact that he went out of his way to give a giant middle finger to the fanbase. Whether that's out of indiference or hostility only makes a difference as far as how angry I am, not whether I'm angry.

Now that I'm done ranting about that, I'll attempt to answer your question. It's a tough question considering how many factors may come in to play here. I have seen the videos. I <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">particularly remember the videos of them on the Nickelodeon cruise. They were obviously closer than Jennette and Miranda or Miranda and Nathan. Let me start off by saying they may be good friends in private. What I'm about to say only applies to what we (the public) can see. I think a large part of the reason their friendship isn't as strong as it used to be is because of the Jathan shippers themselves <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">ironically. They were constantly being asked if they were dating and it took its toll. They appeared in public less to try to end the rumors. For a period they didn't appear in public at all. It's an unfortunate but not <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">unforeseeable consequence of how overzealous the Jathan shippers were being. Keep in mind this was before we ever learned that Nathan and Madisen were dating. All that said, Madisen <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">definitely played a significant a significant role in the decline of their friendship. Season 4 started on July 30, 2010. Assuming Nathan's comment on dating Madisen on the blog you linked me was made in early November of 2010, that would put the start of Nathan and Madisen's relationship at mid July. So the start of their relationship coincides with Jennette and Nathan's friendship starting to decline. There's no way that's a coincidence. Madisen <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">definitely contributed signifcantly to Jennette and Nathan not being as good of friends. How much she contributed to this is debatable. Whether she was the deciding factor is anyone's guess. But their friendship would <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">definitely be stronger if Madisen never came along. Whether this is good for Nathan is a <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">judgment Nathan need to make, but it is certainly bad for the fanbase, as the Twitter incident and Nathan getting Madisen a spot shows. What I think happened is Madisen felt threatened by Nathan being friends with Jennette (this is obviously unfounded because nothing romantic would ever happen between them). Madisen most likely pressured Nathan to tone down his friendship with Jennette. Instead of objecting, Nathan <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">acquiesced. Form your own conclusions about what that says about Nathan's character. Given how <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">ferociously Madisen attacked the Jathan shippers, she clearly felt threatened by Jennette. Whether Madisen actually acted on that by trying to destroy Nathan's friendship with Jennette will never be known, but given how manipulative Madisen proved to be during the Twitter incident, I'd say it's more likely than not that she actively tried to break them up. By the way, I want to say that I think that when Jennette says she's friends with Madisen, it's all for show. I don't think they're friends. I think they're either indifferent towards each other or they don't like each other. Which one it is depends on how Madisen treats Jennette in private. I think Jennette is pretending to be friends with Madisen as a favor to Nathan. Nathan thinks that if the Jathan shippers think Jennette and Madisen are friends Madisen will get less hate. He know if they openly don't like each other, the fans will side with Jennette. That may have worked before Madisen showed what a b**** she is, but it certainly isn't working now. A third factor is that people sometimes naturally grow apart. How much of a role this played is anyone's guess, but I'm almost positive Jennette and Nathan would still be good friends if it weren't for the Jathan shippers and Madisen. The last thing I'll say about this involves Jennette unfollowing Nathan. I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on that. She is currently following him, so I think that was by accident. I bet she didn't even realize she did that until she saw the fans react to it. In any case, you don't unfollow someone that you haven't had a fight with. So that's my analysis of what I think happened to Jennette and Nathan's friendship. Whether that's affecting the show or not is another question entirely, so I'll address that <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">separately.

<span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"> <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">Jennette is very professional (so is Nathan on set; off set is another story), so it would require a lot of evidence to convice me that the status of their friendship has any effect on the show. I just don't think that evidence exists. I agree that the show has been off since season 4 started, but I don't think that has anything to do with Jennette and Nathan's relationship. I thinks it's all about Dan's writing. I think Dan has been focusing on Victorious since its premier at the expense of iCarly. As a result, thing have gone downhill. Victorious came out in March of 2010, just as season 3 of iCarly was ending. That goes a long way towards explaining iCarly's decline. But I don't think Jennette's relationship with Nathan has anything to do with the show's decline. I just think they're too <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">professional to let their relationship affect their performance on iCarly.

<span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"> <span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN" style="color: rgb(58, 58, 58); line-height: 115%; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">You say that Sam and Freddie's relationship has been off lately. Can you explain what you mean by that? I think they're relationship was properly developed up to the point of iOMG since the end result was for Sam to fall in love with Freddie. I'm a lot less sure about iOMG itself and the Seddie arc. Can you also expain what you mean by "forced" and "awkward"?